"Insecure leftist men love Islam, because they can’t stand uppity women." – Old Peculier, here. That time of the month is it, luv?
"Insecure leftist men love Islam, because they can’t stand uppity women." – Old Peculier, here. That time of the month is it, luv?
Good to see that old fashioned misogyny is still acceptable on the Left side of the house!
Don’t argue with me or I’ll cry – it’s me hormones, see!
Julia, Almost as good as seeing a class A failure of humour, eh? At least OP sees the funny side (which is more than can be said of posts in "Fanaticism goes mainstream"). John: does that thread win any awards with 137 posts?
of course, Old P has nothing to say about "insecure right-wing men" or, of course, any "insecure right-wing women".
personal attacks are no substitute for a debate.
however OP doesn’t know how to debate – just to rant and repeat prejudices. she dismisses [as you can see in the ultra-long thread below] ideas and evidence she doesn’t like as "boring"
i suggest she grows up before she starts posting again on the internet rather than just trolling and taking up bandwidth
Matt: It’s more than 137 now…
On that thread I tagged the following onto an attempt to be reasonable
and of course I must be one of a left-wing gang, because we’re all the same innit? I’m wearing sandals and stroking my beard as I speak
It seems I forgot to add that clearly I’m an uppity insecure man who wants to use Islam to browbeat women. Er, yeah, right. If you’re still reading OP, do you want to find the places in my posts where I say I agree with misogyny as justified by Islam?
And have you managed to find a copy of The Streets of Ashkelon yet?
Actually, that quote from me isn’t a syllogism. A syllogism would be something like: "Lefies are boring. GL is a lefty. Therefore GL is boring."
However, while what John B said isn’t a syllogism, it is a load of silly jism.
This, for avoidance of doubt, is a really funny joke.
OP – i’d far rather be ‘boring’ (by your rather subjective def’n) than an apologist for fascism in its anti-islamic forms.
Out of curiousity, are you actually going to read the links i sent you? I suspect not.
Perhaps a better syllogism is:
1. OP is a bigot
2. Bigots all over the world are similar
3. Therefore OP is similar to Muslim bigots
Old Peculier is a beer made by Theakstons.
All beers made by Theakstons are fantastic.
Therefore Old Peculier is fantastic.
GeriatricLabour is a long-winded and tedious nick.
Skipping the middle bit..
Therefore GL is a long-winded and tedious pr… er…person.
Why are you still wasting time replying to OP when she’s demonstrated repeatedly that she has neither the brain nor the inclination for a genuine debate? Merely an appetite for second-hand ideas trawled from right-wing newspapers and second-hand gags from the telly.
indeed: a good piece of advice on internet threads is ‘don’t feed the trolls!’
You’re all just proving my point.
You may as well convert right now.
Girlfriend, you don’t HAVE a point!
do you want to find the places in my posts where I say I agree with misogyny as justified by Islam?
Sorry, Helblazer, my comment wasn’t really meant for you, it was just a sweeping generalisation. Generally this site is heaving with dozy leftist moonbat apologists for Islamofascism and other tribal cults (with an l). The attendant misogyny is quite unconscious and quite marked. Look at the main post of this thread, for example. Look also at this comment from our ‘satirical’ Satre fan:
Oh by the way, re. Mohammed (PBUH) shagging a 9 year old girl, in the version of Kerrang! I’ve got, he swears she didn’t look a day under 10.
Yes, raping a nine year old girl is hilarious. How can anyone not laugh? Yet being disparaging about the relgion whose ‘prophet’ did precisely that, is somehow bigoted and un PC.
Are you a Paki, Mr Huis Clos? If so, shouldn’t you be working in your dad’s shop? Not so funny, that, is it?
At one time making sexist remarks would be considered bad form, just as bad as racism, not by right wingers like me, but amongst the holier than thou PC leftists. Multiculturalism, with its glorifying of backward ideologies like Islam offers sexist men on the left a get out, and just see how they’ve grabbed it with both hands.
John, good of you to make what you mistakenly call my ‘syllogism’ the main post of this thread. I stand by every word of it, and you and you fellow leftists have totally proved my point.
I’m with you every step of the way OP.
Speaking as a leftist, I hate all women (uppity or otherwise). By trade I’m an incompetent work-shy social worker. I’m also a closet homosexual, a virgin, a vegan, and at the age of 47, I still wet the bed most nights.
Furthermore I hate everything to do with Britain, and see much to admire in extremist Islam, particularly their bloodthirstiness, and their funky robes.
I have the raging horn for Mullah Omar, and would love to suck his cock until he comes down my throat. If, at the moment of orgasm, he was to thrust his hook through my temple and into my brain, he’d probably be doing us all a favour.
Glad at last to have met someone on my intellectual wavelength.
You haven’t actually addressed the point, in your rather heavy handed satire, as to why sexism is now acceptable where racism is taboo, and, more to the point, criticism of Islam, a highly reactionary, violent, misogynistic and homophobic ideology is deemed unacceptable.
You haven’t actually addressed the point
As I said, it’s nice to be able to talk to someone on the same level as oneself, isn’t it?
If someone on this thread were to rise to my level, then yes it would be.
Bleeding hell. OP, stop using our gender and feminism as an excuse. You haven’t got an argument beyond "Muslims are bad and scary!", which is why the piss is getting ripped. And if you can’t tell the difference between misogyny and snarkily temporarily stooping to your level – who was it started the gender-based insults, again? – that’s your problem.
I didn’t start the insults at all. I made a legitimate point, which has yet to be answered. The comment opening this thread is very sexist. Perhaps you’ve spent too much time in the company of Muslims, Lorna, which is why you don’t see it like that.
John B has said something like, ‘What’s matter, Paki, lost your sense of humour; you darkies are so touchy’ no leftists posting here would tolerate it. Sexist comments are tolerated and approved of because race, multiculturalism and even ideology disguised as religion are seen as more important.
Now, Lorna, shouldn’t you be cooking dinner for your Muslim friends like a good dhimmi?
I didn’t start the insults at all. I made a legitimate point, which has yet to be answered.
No, you made a stupid personal attack. (In what way is talking about insecure men not a gender-based insult?) There’s a difference. People weren’t contradicting your arguments because they’re men – hell, I thought your arguments were a crock, and I’m definitely female – they were contradicting your arguments because your points were bigoted nonsense. You refused to deal with that, so you screeched about men being mean. Please stop embarrassing the cause of feminism.
Now, Lorna, shouldn’t you be cooking dinner for your Muslim friends like a good dhimmi?
I made curry last night, you know. Between the cookery (well, raw dry lentils and rice are kind of indigestible) and the JIHADFOOD, I don’t know how Western civilisation is supposed to survive, I really don’t.
("Dhimmi", huh? I just can’t keep up with what the kewl kids are saying any more. I think I’ll take to writing exclusively in palare and confuse you all. My slang is more exclusive than yours, ergo I am cooler and you all suck. Fear my made-up words!)
The comment opening this thread is very sexist.
It was a self-aware joke.
Now, Lorna, shouldn’t you be cooking dinner for your Muslim friends like a good dhimmi?
Well I suppose it’s better than cooking dinner for Nick Griffin and the ghost of Adolf Hitler.
Lorna, you trivialise an ideology that is a threat to all civilised values including gender equality.
I wasn’t implying that all left-wing men prioritise Islam and other backward ideologies over women’s rights, just those who are insecure, and who never really liked the idea of gender equality in the first place.
I never said that people were contradicting my arguments because they were men. If you bothered to read my comments, Lorna, rather than leap to the defense of Islam because it is the ‘kewl’ thing to do, then you might actually learn something.
Now, off you go, back to your dhimmi la la land where all Muslims are just ordinary blokes who like a beer. Move along now, nothing to see here. Some one cracks a joke about raping a nine year old? Well, how can any woman possibly object, unless they’re overre-acting and totally unkewl. British Muslims, who have grown up with all the advantages that this country has to offer, murder 52 innocent people in the name of Islam. But no, that’s nothing, Lorna knows a kewl Muslim who likes a beer…
Simon – self-aware my arse. Would ‘you pakis are a bit slow on the uptake’ have been forgiven as being self-aware and post-modern in an ironic way? Like hell it would.
Nick Griffin and Adolf Hitler have nothing to do with this, Simon, because Islam isn’t a race.
Is everyone on this site except me a total moron?
Is everyone on this site except me a total moron?
If everyone else appears to be a moron, there are two possible explainations:
i) They are;
ii) You are, they’re not.
Now, by a little application of Occam’s razor, I think I find (ii) to be far more likely.
OP, what the fuck is your argument? Can you just make one reasoned, debatable point which we might be able to have a rational argument about? Please?
I’ve made it, over and over again. Islam is very sexist, violent and homophobic. A right wing ideology with the same ideas about women, violence and gays would be rightly torn to shreds by the left. Islam is not, indeed it is often defended by the left. Leftists who scream blue murder at the relatively mild conservatism of Christians, will ignore the reactionary quasi fascism of Islam.
You may disagree with this argument, Matt. But it is an argument. What you’ve done, like so many here, is just shout abuse.
Where have I shouted abuse? I agree, broadly, with your statement. Islam is shit, like I believe all religions to be fictional shit. Pleased now? However, in the other thread, you wrote:
Are you seriously saying that writing a letter, albeit one with somewhat reactionary views, is more dangerous than fanatics blowing themselves up in tube trains and actually killing people?
That’s rather different to saying that Islam is crap. John rightly pointed out that while a few nutters can kill a few of us (rather fewer of us than cars, or cancer, or random bad luck manage to finish off, mind) shouldn’t unduly worry us. A turning tide of opinion which makes facistic, white-supremist views seem almost normal is something to be seriously worried about. You haven’t argued this point at all well, which is why people are getting annoyed with you. I don’t think anyone on this site thinks that Islam is at all a reasonable set of beliefs to hold, but I would say the same about Christianity, say.
Lorna, you trivialise an ideology that is a threat to all civilised values including gender equality.
I’m gonna say this one more time before I start beating my head against the wall and wailing pitifully. Fundamentalists, of all varieties, may or may not be a threat. The religion as a whole probably isn’t, and neither are common-or-garden religious folks, and referring to the entire religion as though they’re all fundamentalists is a load of offensive, bigoted crap. I grew out of that tendency with regards to Christians, and can now acknowledge that the average Jesus-flavoured person is not actually Fred Phelps. I suggest you try the same with regards to Muslims.
I never said that people were contradicting my arguments because they were men.
What you said was:
"But Alison, the men posting on this site know better, as all men do, and will put you in your place, as they have done with me. According to the Koran, we are deficient in intelligence to them, and how could Mohammed, the murdering rapist paedophile, be wrong?
"Insecure leftist men love Islam, because they can’t stand uppity women."
Since you haven’t provided any other explanation for why people might criticise your arguments, other than your claim that insecure leftist men love Islam, I’m afraid that’s the only conclusion someone with actual reading comprehension skills could draw.
If you bothered to read my comments, Lorna, rather than leap to the defense of Islam because it is the ‘kewl’ thing to do
Actually, I meandered to the defence of Islam, about 30 comments in and wondering how the hell I got to the point of defending a monotheistic patriarchal religion, because I think staying silent about such comments is as unjustifiable as making them in the first place. There’s no way of getting rid of majority-culture privilege, but that’s no excuse for wallowing in it.
Yes, I read your comments. I’m blaming you for the fact I’m now thoroughly depressed about the way society’s going and my loathing of all my fellow-humans is resurfacing. Thanks for that.
Now, off you go, back to your dhimmi la la land
Do I get pink clouds in my dhimmi la-la land? I ain’t going if there’s no pink clouds. And they have to be fluffy.
Nick Griffin and Adolf Hitler have nothing to do with this, Simon, because Islam isn’t a race.
Interestingly enough, that’s exactly the approach Nick Griffin takes – that it’s okay to talk as much hate about Muslims as he likes, because it’s a religion and not a race. I’m not a big fan of the "yes, and [X asshole] said that, too!" approach, but I just thought I’d let you know.
Is everyone on this site except me a total moron?
If "moron" is defined as "someone who does not make sweeping generalisations about a world religion based on the actions of a few nutjobs aligned with it; who does not make stupid personal assumptions which are easily refuted – ‘nobody except me has read the Koran’, anyone?; who does not accuse their debating opponents of supporting paedophilia in an attempt to shame them out of a valid argument; and who realises when they are being a flat-out bigot and tries to back off, rather than getting defensive and trying to justify it" – then yes, everybody’s a moron except you. If not, then not so much.
Lorna, you make the standard mistake that a lot of atheists make of claiming that all religions are equally bad. Fundamentalist Christianity is not the same as fundamentalist Islam. Suppose you had to get on a plane with full of fundamentalists. Fundamentalist Christians – aarrrgh, the guitars, the smiling, the praying. Or fundamentalist Muslims….
Unlike Christianity, Islam right from the off was a vehicle for imperialism, and mandates killing of unbelievers. Women’s ‘rights’ under sharia law are non-existent. If you know anything about sharia law, other than the taqiyya that your kewl muslims friends come out with, you will know this.
A recent poll said that 60% of UK muslims want sharia in the UK. Do you imagine that 60% of Christians want to bring back Leviticus?
No religious group in the UK other than Muslims are perpetrating terrorism. IRA terrorism was not comparable – they were acting in the name of nationalism, not in the name of Islam, and had concrete negotiable demands.
Young Muslims in the UK are often more reactionary and less assimilated than their parents. This applies to no other immigrant group. Muslims are much more likely to be in prison or unemployed. 6% of muslims, extrapolating to 120,000 people thought that the terrorist attacks on London were justified.
You can bang on all you like about all religions being equally bad. I’ll believe you when a bunch of Quakers blow themselves up on a tube train.
Again, you have missed the point I made about insecure men using multiculturalism as a way of pulling back from a gender equality that they never really believed in. You clearly are not capable of understanding this point, which I have made clearly in any number of ways, so there is no point in pursuing this argument.
I’m blaming you for the fact I’m now thoroughly depressed about the way society’s going and my loathing of all my fellow-humans is resurfacing.</I>
Perhaps you should be more concerned about the number of Muslims in our society who think that murder of their fellow citizens is justified. Don’t shoot the messanger – it is the terrorists and their evil ideology that you should be bothering about.
Lorna said: People weren’t contradicting your arguments because they’re men – hell, I thought your arguments were a crock, and I’m definitely female – they were contradicting your arguments because your points were bigoted nonsense.
So true. I’m delurking just to provide some more female balance here; Lorna needs no help making a rational argument. But it does seem that a lot of OPs arguments are centering around the premise that she is a lone True Feminist in a sea of misogynists.
Not much point saying anything else, as OP clearly has no interest in rational discussion. And anyway, pretty much all the points I’d have made have been made already, by both genders.
I’ll go back to lurking now, flame wars scare me.
Sorry, forgot to turn the italics off.
Ally – I never said people were contradicting me because they are men. Like Lorna, you did not read my original posts. I’m saying that men who are insecure – not all men- and men who do not really feel comfortable with gender equality – defend a religion that promotes gender inequality and get away with it in the name of multiculturalism.
By all means disagree with that, but don’t pretend it isn’t a coherent proposition.
I have been trying to have a rational discussion here, and all I get is insults.
Lorna, you make the standard mistake that a lot of atheists make of claiming that all religions are equally bad.
I’m not actually an atheist – oh, god, here’s coming out of a much more shameful closet than the obvious, and it’s really embarrassing – though I do think there’s absolutely no place for religion in public life. Do you have some kind of addiction to making easily-refutable false assumptions about people you’re arguing with, as though said assumptions constituted an argument?
Clearly you’re not arguing with me, or any of the other commenters, or any real version of Islam. You’re arguing with the version of them in your head.
Oh Bollocks:
undamentalist Christians – aarrrgh, the guitars, the smiling, the praying.
Yeah, where they’re not blowing up abortion clinics, killing Muslims in various parts of the world (not the West though, so that’s okay), trying to teach non-scientific clap-trap in our schools. Have you ever been to an evangelical Christian service? It’s pretty fully of rather hateful anti-female stuff: the "wife should obey the husband like man obeys God" for example.
RA terrorism was not comparable – they were acting in the name of nationalism, not in the name of Islam, and had concrete negotiable demands.
Right, like all the Protestants (the majority, mind you) fucking off from the North of Ireland back to Britain. Yes, very reasonable demand. Oh, you never said "reasonable". Well, many people seem to think that us getting our troops the hell out the middle east is a negotiable demand of the current crop of terrorists. It’s not a remotely reasonable demand, but it sure as hell is "concrete" and "negotiable".
Again, you have missed the point I made about insecure men using multiculturalism as a way of pulling back from a gender equality that they never really believed in.
You’ve given no argument for this, beyond "You don’t agree with me that all Muslims are spawn of the devil" == "You’re a woman mating man who worships Muslims" which is no sort of argument at all.
OK, so I was wrong about you not being an atheist, Lorna. However, Islam, as you may, or may not know, is not a ‘private’ religion, but a complete way of life, social, legal, political and not merely spiritual. Christianity makes the God/Caesar distinction between public and private spheres, that is alien to Islam.
Islam is inherently political. It advocates a complete system that is totally at variance with civilised values and does not recognise the legitimacy of man made law.
Doesn’t the fact that no inventions have come out of the Muslim world for hundreds of years have any significance for you? Or the fact that the non-oil economy of the entire Middle East is equivalent to that of Finland? Or that Muslim countries are going backwards not forwards, that sharia is breaking out in Iraq, legitimising wife beating? Or that nearly all wars currently going on involve Muslims? Or that the same number of books were translated into Arabic throught history as were translated into Spanish in one year?
Lorna, is all this just coincidence, or the fault of the West? Is this some imaginary version of Islam that my deranged brain has thought up, while the real Islam is benign, encouraging of inventions, good to women and so forth?
Reality check due.
Nope, sorry; I would be responding to your points, if I weren’t just banging my head against the wall and wailing at this point. See above.
*Thump*
"Waaaah"
*Thump*
"Waaaah"
*Thump*
"Waaaah"
Translation of OP:
<Lots of spittle flying about place> ISLAM IS BARBARIC AND BACKWARDS AND ITS ALL SHIT SHIT SHIT AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<collapses in heap>
Strikes me that the middle east is doing better than large chunks of (Christian) Africa. But that’s beside the point, eh? As would be any reply to my rebuttals of your point?
Your comments about Christianity having a separation of church and state built into it is absolute bollocks, and would be news to large numbers of evangelicals in the US, for example.
where they’re not blowing up abortion clinics, killing Muslims in various parts of the world (not the West though, so that’s okay), trying to teach non-scientific clap-trap in our schools. Have you ever been to an evangelical Christian service? It’s pretty fully of rather hateful anti-female stuff: the "wife should obey the husband like man obeys God" for example.</I>
Zzzzz. Bloody abortion clinics. Number of people killed – about 7. Yes, 7. Reallly piddling stuff. Wrong but tiny, tiny small beer, one seventh of just the latest atrocity in London.
Teaching conservative stuff – please, Matt, use your brain. Do fundamentalist Christians stone gays and rape victims. Fundamentalist Christians in America have to obey the secular law in any case. This is truly fatuous comparison. By comparing anti-women attitudes of Christians, which have no legal force, with the cruel and barbaric daily and legally allowed violations of women’s rights in ALL Muslim countries, you are showing a moral bankrupty which does a shameful disservice to women who are suffering in these countries. Ten year old, genitally mutilated girls about to be stoned to death for being raped would jump at the change to be told by a priest to obey their husband, which they wouldn’t have to do in law anyway.
The ‘spawn of the devil’ nonsense puts words into my mouth that I did not say.
OP, against my better judgement, I’d like to go back to the core proposition that started all this. I would genuinely be interested to know which parts of the following statement from John you disagree with. Please try and stick to the statement in your response.
"If mentalist hate-fuelled rightwing views were to become mainstream, then we could easily end up with a mentalist hate-fuelled rightwing government. This would pass laws that *genuinely* threatened our way of life."
Your comments about Christianity having a separation of church and state built into it is absolute bollocks, and would be news to large numbers of evangelicals in the US, for example.
You obviously know nothing about Christianity, or you would know Jesus’ distinction between God and Caesar, ie between the spritual and temporal world. Islam does not make this distinction.
Your comment about evangelicals is fatuous. Evangelicals live in a country with a secular state, and unless they are unaware of the laws of that state, will know and accept this. (Or they’d all be in prison.)
You mention Africa – creeping sharia hasn’t helped. Nigeria was once ruled by English law, now they’re stoning rape victims, a favourite pastime down your local baptist church.
Actually, I have waded through your original posts – the whole implication behind your arguments is that the people who are trying to have a rational discussion with you are incapable of doing so, because they are men who do not feel comfortable with gender equality.
I think that the posts of most of the frequent commenters on this site over time directly contradict that premise.
Your statements and your arguments are woolly, reactionary and badly thought out. For example, is indefensible to throw out hysterical accusations of supporting paedophilia at people who are simply disagreeing with your argument.
OP: So Gays have never be brutally murdered by Christians in the US? If you think no, try Google. Sure, it’s not state mandated, I’ll give you that.
Lots of barbaric shit happens in Africa: as much associated with mixtures of voodoo like tribalism and Christianity, as it is associated with Islam. I’m fairly sure the children tortured in London recently were not tortured in the name of Islam, but in a corrupted form of Christianity.
Anyway, in what way do your examples reflect on the vast majority of Muslims living in Britain?
If mentalist hate-fuelled rightwing views were to become mainstream, then we could easily end up with a mentalist hate-fuelled rightwing government. This would pass laws that *genuinely* threatened our way of life."
Well it’s one of those statements like ‘evil is bad’. If things get really nasty things get really nasty.
The hate in the UK at the moment, the sort of hate that makes people blow themselves up on tube trains is not coming from the right wing. If the BNP or right wingers killed 50 Muslims then I’d see them as the real threat. Likewise Quakers.
But John’s point is that 50 people being randomly killed is not a threat to our way of life. Many more people than that die at random (from car crashes, cancer, even murder) in this country.
Ally:
hysterical accusations of supporting paedophilia
I’ve not said that anyone supports paedophilia – you said that. However, the rape of a 9 year old was considered a subject for levity by one leftist poster, in a way that I would suggest the beating up of a ‘Paki’ might not be.
Yes, gays have been murdered by Christians in the US. Difference, under sharia law, that murder is legal. Unter US law it isn’t. 60% of UK muslims want sharia law in the UK. Go figure.
Yes, voodoo witchcraft – so what. Nothing to do with christianity. Stoning of adulteresses – everything to do with sharia, whether rape victims or not.
You probably don’t know what Jesus said to the crowd when the woman was accused of adultery. Clue: a bit different from what Mohammed said.
Big big differences.
Has anyone mentioned Nazis yet? Because then we could invoke Godwin’s Law and all go and have a nice cup of tea.
But John’s point is that 50 people being randomly killed is not a threat to our way of life. Many more people than that die at random (from car crashes, cancer, even murder) in this country.
Then that’s a silly point. Of course there’s a difference between people being killed in a terrorist attack and people getting run over by a bus. This is a terrorist attack that 6% of British Muslims, ie 120,000 British Muslims, say is legitimate. How many of those will carry out more such attacks is hard to say. But it is stupid to say that it is random, like an accident.
*Stops thumping for a moment*
I’ve not said that anyone supports paedophilia – you said that.
Actually, you said "What is it about Islam that you lefties like so much? […] The fact that its prophet raped a nine year old girl amongst others?" to left-wingers in general, and "Or maybe you think it’s ok for a 53 year old man to have sex with a 9 year old girl?" to me.
And then have the nerve to claim you just want rational debate and everybody else is hurling abuse.
*Goes back to thumping*
OK, that was a little steamed up. I accept,then that you don’t support paedophilia. However, you find nothing to criticise in a religion whose founder was a paedophile. A beer loving Muslim buddy of yours belongs to this religion.
So while you do not support paedophilia, you are soft on a religion that does.
"That time of the month is it luv"
"OP is a bigot"
‘don’t feed the trolls!’
0/10
Thought you could relate to that score after all you are such tolerant academics with clear reasoning and clever arguments.
Well, thanks for that comment AF. Really added to the debate. You views on the theological basis for the separation of church and state in Christianity were profound.
I may be wrong, but perhaps there is someone here, AF who isn’t a total moron?
So, Matt, do you take issue with Jesus’ distinction between God and Caesar? Do you even know it?
Presumably you are aware that successful countries (mainly Western ones) do separate religion and politics. However, secularism does not work so well in Islam as it is against Islam and has to be enforced with varying degress of repression. The least repressive of secular Muslim countries is Turkey, and that falls a long way short on what we in the West would consider to be human rights.
OP, I notice that just as I and the left are in love with Islam, so you are completely obsessed with fundamentalist Christianity. What is it that gets you off about it so much? Is it perhaps that you’re a young-earth creationist? That would certainly be consistent with the level of debate you’ve displayed on this site. Further, your comments above clearly show that you’re sympathetic to the bombing of abortion clinics. That is pretty cool I agree with you.
My guess is that you’re also an avid fan of http://www.godhatesfags.com, and what really pisses you off about Islam is not the terrorism, or women’s rights, but the fact that they’ve nicked your hateful anti-gay platform, and are handling it with more panache than you ever could… Am I right?
No, it was just a brief respite.
Everyone here except me is a moron.
I used to think Harry’s Place was Moonbat City, but they seem quite level headed compared with the moonbats here. Harry’s Place – a better class of moonbat.
Well bugger off then.
Moron
Your mum
Farty pants
I know you are, but what am I?
Huis huis clos with a wee wee po.
OP: Everyone here except me is a moron.
<bangs head on wall repeatedly>
OP: Doesn’t the fact that no inventions have come out of the Muslim world for hundreds of years have any significance for you? Or the fact that the non-oil economy of the entire Middle East is equivalent to that of Finland? Or that Muslim countries are going backwards not forwards, that sharia is breaking out in Iraq, legitimising wife beating? Or that nearly all wars currently going on involve Muslims? Or that the same number of books were translated into Arabic throught history as were translated into Spanish in one year?
Matt, do you want to have a go shooting holes in this? I’m too knackered at the moment.
Just to say that current iniquities/inequities in the world have a large amount to do with politics and history, and not very much to do with the Koran – or the Old Testament, for that matter. Oh, and have a look at Guns Germs and Steel – it seems to have got some on the left in a tizz, so you might be able to stomach it long enough to see some of your misapprehensions modified.
OP: If the BNP or right wingers killed 50 Muslims then I’d see them as the real threat. Likewise Quakers.
Old Compton Street bomber, anyone? and as a frequenter of Charing Cross Road I found *that* genuinely scary.
Once again, OP, calling me a moonbat doesn’t advance the debate any further. I started off trying to play devil’s advocate between you and those who keep telling you to fuck off… and you know what? FUCK OFF.
<ahem>
<gets back to stroking beard while admiring new pair of sandals and new copy of `SAMS: Islamic fanaticism in 24 Hours’>
On a side note: anyone care to check the email address for the poster at
http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/full_post.asp?pid=1325#comment7436
and that at
http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/full_post.asp?pid=1324#comment7520
and then compare English styles….
Yes, and there’s a whole religion of Old Compton Street Bombers, a whole movement of them just waiting to strike again in the name of their ‘prophet’.
Moonbat.
Isn’t that why Combat 18 is called that? The 1 and the 8 stand for letters at those places in the alphabet — that would be ‘A’ and ‘H.’
Credit to David T, whose comment here (dated August 4, 6.10PM) pretty much sums up the Old Peculier phenomenon.
The problem with OP’s arguement is that it contains two serious contradictions.
[1] Hatred of Muslims is justified as being a Muslim is a free choice [contrast with] I am doing all this to free Muslim women.
[2] Islam is incapable of being anything other than bin Laden’s Islamism as its theology says it cannot change, therefore it must be opposed at all points [contrast with] I am doing all my ranting to encourage a reformation of Islam to help Muslim women.
Basically, OP hates Muslim women, but she hates them for their own good.
Bollocks, dick brain.
Thanks Simon, I read with interest. So why does OP think she’s entitled to come here and engage, if that’s the word, in the sort of childish non-debate that she’s clearly no longer able to get away with at HP? I found the HP thread, including her contribution to it, interesting. If only OP would do people here the courtesy of engaging with the topics raised, she might find she gets a better reception.
(And before you kick off again OP, I deliberately didn’t address this question directly to you because I don’t – really don’t – want to get embroiled in yet another boo-hiss nasty sexist pig shouting match.)
Well people rise to the standard of the people they’re debating with.
Also it can’t have escaped your notice that I’m completely outnumbered here, whereas HP has some non moonbats posting.
This whole post was basically an attack on me so it isn’t surprising that I got a bit defensive, yes maybe childish. So what?
An attack? A leg-pull perhaps. But my question goes back to the start of the original "extremism" thread. You say that you’re "outnumbered" here, yet I see very few contributors to the HP thread who share your position. Conversely I don’t see, as you do, many people here defending the ideological, military, social, sexual or other excesses of fundamentalism Islam. So I am genuinely puzzled by the difference in your approach to the two sites.
For my part, I recognise that there are serious issues about the place of Islam within our secular society; issues which I am only beginning to work through myself. At HP you pointed out that your interest in Islam began on 12 September 2001. For many people, serious interest in Islam would have begun some time between then and 8 July 2005, so you’ve got a head start on many others, including me.
I am interested in all of that, and interested in what someone like you might have to say, even though our politics are clearly very different. But the "extremism" thread wasn’t about that, it was about the risks to the British way of life of a drift towards rightwing extremism. You may well regard that as smacking of "appeasement" or worse, but that was not the point of the original thread. What has got me and I suspect others here angry is that you in effect hijacked the thread without engaging with the topic under discussion.
I am also offended by the way you have persistently insulted contributors here, about whom you actually know nothing. For example, it might or might not surprise you to learn that I am a parent of three teenage children; that I care passionately about the right of my daughters to live in a society free of sexual prejudice and gender inequality, a state of affairs which regrettably seems as far off as ever; that my last long-term partner was a secular Muslim, and that I have many Muslim friends of both genders who are as appalled by Islamist extremism as you are; and that I lost a very old friend in the World Trade Center attack. She too was a Muslim.
People here are probably far more receptive to an informed critique of Islam than you would give them credit for. But barging in as you have over recent days gets noone anywhere.
OK, maybe. But I have felt defensive here. And there is a double standard – it’s OK to make sexist leg-pulls, and at first I went along with that, but woe betide anyone who takes the piss out of the old goat Mohammed and his pervy tendencies.
OK, I don’t take this site as seriously as HP, because generally the level of comment is not so good. But perhaps I’ve not helped matters.
I am sorry to hear about your friend. Muslims are, arguably the main victims of Islam.
I’m fairly certain my "she didn’t look a day under 10" line would have raised the odd eyebrow at the Finsbury Park Mosque, but I see your point.
Well perhaps you can help raise standards round here too!
OK – peace. Will try harder.
(Self-flagellates. Mmm, nice.)
Oh dear! This thread does seem to be going on and on, with Old P being juvenile as usual.
I note she dismisses comments that disagree with her as being pro-Islamic (as opposed to anti-islamophobic). She also will probably try her usual trick of typing "zzzzzzzzzz" after i post because she can’t seem to handle the notion of argumement, debate & discussion.
Here’s a set of points (that Old P has repeatedly refused to enagage with when i mentioned this on HP). let’s she if she does so this time:
1. OP claims to oppose Islam because of its sexism
2. She accuses all who disagree with her of sexism
3. Yet, she has very little to say about sexism _outside of islamic societies_
4. India & China have _less women than men_ (implying some degree of female infanticide).
5. This is a major issue of concern for feminists there.
6. OP has nothing to say about it.
7. Islamophobia is not just directed at Muslim men but at Muslim women
8. Muslim women have suffered as a result of Islamophobia [see the links i posted to the other thead mentioning the Gujarat anti-muslim pogroms].
9. This suggests that she is just using sexism as an excuse to justify her pre-existing hatred of islam.