Comments on: The plot thickens…

By: dsquared

dsquared — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 02:38:00 +0000

There is a difference between seeing a body and establishing a coroner’s verdict of unlawful killing, though.

By: Pearsall

Pearsall — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:03:00 +0000

John, I got the impression from the local article that the journalist was with the Guardsman as they walked around the convention center and that the journalist did at least see some of the bodies.

By: john b

john b — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:50:00 +0000

Pearsall – while I suspect Gary Younge isn’t entirely likely to be a king of honesty, I trust his reporting more than NewsMax (ake The Right Wing Propaganda Channel). The local piece, while I’m sure it’s well-meant rather than outright black-hating, still only features the vile murder/rape bits as unsubstantiated anecdote rather than something the writer has observed.

By: Pearsall

Pearsall — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:11:00 +0000

John, see this also.

All this heat and light about 'the crime stories are unsubstantiated' is perplexing, as New Orleans has always been a very very violent city (I pointed out here that it's murder rate is 22 times higher than London's), so it would be odd for there not to have been violence, considering how much there is ordinarily, and the fact that the police command structure basically collapsed in the aftermath. Certainly some of the more outlandish stories will probably turn out to be untrue, but I don't think you should invest too much in Gary Younge's 'unsubstantiated stories - paranoid whitey!' line.

By: Pearsall

Pearsall — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:40:00 +0000

John, I did read a story involving a doctor who’d been working in the Superdome where he said they had had 6 murders and 12 rapes within the Superdome.

By: Matt Daws

Matt Daws — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:12:00 +0000

To cross-post between two of John's posts: See these:

Senator Landrieu press-release

German ZDF TV or Confusion

In both cases, it appears that the relief efforts were largely "stage managed" for Bush's visit, and then machinery was removed and workers disappeared after Bush left. This both makes Bush look bad, and it makes the US look bad to the outside world, and frankly it's got nothing to do with media distortion...

By: Ed

Ed — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:40:00 +0000

You misunderstand me, I did not mean to suggest that the events in New Orleans justify the opinion that all of America is a lawless hellish place. What I would say is that the events in NO have exposed almost all the negative aspects of American society at once, the racism, the extreme poverty, the aggressive individualism and 'fight for survival' elements of the american psyche.

It is probably fair to say that there was a need to deploy armed forces in NO simply because of the number of guns available to american civilians, however what seemed odd is the posture of the rescuers, who seemed to be concentrating less on actual rescuing than protecting the property rights of people who had left.

The way I see it, the US government should have done more to protect its citizens, instead it effectively ignored the problem until too late. The rich/white people from NO had the means to evacuate themselves, the government seemed to behave as though the rich people were all that mattered and the poor were left to fend for themselves. It then belatedly realises that there are people in NO who couldn't get out and deploys its resources in NO in a heavy handed, aggressive, combat posture, rather than an aid and rescue posture, implicitly stating that the remaining population of NO were criminals and could not be trusted to behave in a rational manner. Never mind the fact that most of the looting would have been averted had there been an effective emergency plan

I do not believe that in the event of a large natural disaster the British authorities would resort to treating everyone like criminals. I saw on the news yesterday, as the police went on a search patrol for survivors, everyone they met was made to put their hands up at gunpoint, that is not what I would call search and rescue. They also didn't meet a single other rescue boat.

The sheer mind boggling ameteurism of what I have seen, the fact that they seem to be completely unprepared for something which they knew was coming is what shocks me. America is the worlds most powerful nation, how did they become so powerful with such incompetent leadership?

apologies for length

By: Matt Daws

Matt Daws — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:05:00 +0000

Sarah, I’m not sure. Judging by reports I’ve read, the emphasis on rape was because lots of people who’d been in the superdome actually believed the rumours of rape. The media then interviewed these people and simply reported what they said. It’s not surprising that scared people in an overcrowded, pitch-black (at night, after the power failed) stadium, with no toilets working, would start to believe rumours like this. There is, I guess, an argument that the media should have checked the stories, and printed "rumour warnings".

By: Sarah

Sarah — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:02:00 +0000

I’m amazed that if people’s first thought is ‘what naughty, uncivilised black people’ their second thought isn’t ‘For God’s sakes we shouldn’t let them have guns!’. Once you have frightened people with guns stealing things and threatening rescue workers if they don’t rescue their families then it will inevitably be harder to police than frightened people without weapons; that may be the biggest difference between US citizens in emergency situations versus Canadian or UK citizens. My guess is that media emphasis on rape etc is a combination of racial stereotyping and an effort to avoid obvious conclusions about gun control.

By: Jim Bliss

Jim Bliss — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:30:00 +0000

it would be quite wrong to use NO to justify crude anti-American views

Very true. You have to look at the bigger picture - at America in general - in order to justify one's crude anti-American views.