Comments on: Open letter to apologists

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:43:00 +0000

News just in: de Menezes' visa expired over two years ago. He also may have had a forged stamp in his passport.

So it's beginning to look as though he really was an illegal immigrant (at least to all practical intents and purposes) - which at least explains his behaviour when challenged by police.

(Obviously, it doesn't excuse tossers saying "well, he was immigrant scum so it's a good thing he's dead", but then again nothing would do that).

By: Larry

Larry — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:13:00 +0000

"All those" implies more than one

Not at all. In my opinion The Happy Rampager's comment was an honest attempt to communicate with no-one at all.

By: dsquared

dsquared — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:11:00 +0000

(that’s not the same as "throwing them to the wolves", rather obviously)

By: dsquared

dsquared — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:10:00 +0000

I would withhold opinion as to whether the police officers should be disciplined until the results of the inquiry are out. If it turns out that the police had clear rules of engagement telling them how to identify themselves as armed police officers in these cases, and if they failed to follow those rules (both of which propositions I currently regard as indeterminate for lack of evidence) then they would be culpable.

By: Michael

Michael — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:59:00 +0000

To all those who are adament that these officers should be thrown to the wolves, I have a question that you need to think about.

"All those" implies more than one - but I'm having trouble coming up with just one, either in this thread or elsewhere.

On the contrary, it seems to me that even those who are critical of what the police did last Friday have bent over backwards to stress that they don't think they should be disciplined over this particular case. Criticised, yes - how could any sane person argue otherwise? - but disciplined, no.

By: john b

john b — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:32:00 +0000

THR – read Dsquared and Chris Lightfoot’s discussion on another thread for a more detailed analysis of the tradeoff, such as it exists, between protecting the public and not shooting innocents.

By: N.I.B.

N.I.B. — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:14:00 +0000

To all those who are adament that these officers should be thrown to the wolves

Has anyone here said that?

By: The Happy Rampager

The Happy Rampager — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:59:00 +0000

To all those who are adament that these officers should be thrown to the wolves, I have a question that you need to think about.

You're one of the officers chasing this man into a Tube station, where you apprehend him on a platform. You do not know that he is not carrying a bomb - all you have to go on is his behaviour. Furthermore, you are well aware that any actions you take to find out whether he IS carrying a bomb could give him ample opportunity to detonate any such bomb. Don't answer, 'well we would have found out later that he was Brazilian', because you don't know that.

Under the circumstances, you might very well be endangering members of the public by doing anything other than what these officers did. Now if you maintain that you would rather 'find out first' (how?), or use non-lethal force (such as may be mandated by the Home Office - so this question is not purely academic), that might allow real bombers in the future a shot at blowing up people around them, then I can only conclude that the lives of members of the public does not enter into the equation for you. Which is, frankly, fucking irresponsible.

So think about the possible consequences that might result from meeting your demands to penalize and discourage action taken to protect people from suicide bombers, eh?

By: Oscar Wildebeest

Oscar Wildebeest — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:21:00 +0000

Considering how many Brazilians live in Stockwell (for those who don’t know the area, it is packed with Portuguese and Brazilians), I’m surprised it doesn’t seem to have entered the police’s heads that this chap might just possibly have been Brazilian and not an Arab/Pakistani/anti-globalistion protestor.

By: Simon

Simon — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:05:00 +0000

"The many ideas that Menezes had were all wrong, and he paid the penalty."

Yeah, all those stupid ideas like "hmm, it's not that warm this morning, I think I'll wear a coat" and "it's a bit of a walk to fix this fire alarm. I'll catch a bus to Stockwell and get a tube." If I'd known those ideas he was having, I'd have got the train down and shot him myself!