Comments on: De Menezes again

By: hellblazer

hellblazer — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:04:00 +0000

The officer/death squad operative intended to kill, and on the basis of the information now available we can be sure he was not acting in lawful self defence or defence of another.

But there seems `reasonable doubt' as to whether or not he believed he was acting in defence of others, and `reasonable doubt' is presumably all that's needed.

For the record, I think the squad involved and their chain of command need to face serious questioning and disciplinary action. I just don't think a murder charge would be proprtionate. IMHO

By: uncle joe

uncle joe — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:04:00 +0000

hellblazer: no, he was murdered. The officer/death squad operative intended to kill, and on the basis of the information now available we can be sure he was not acting in lawful self defence or defence of another.

By: hellblazer

hellblazer — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 06:54:00 +0000

a.c. - just for the record, I don't think so.

No make that ``I so don't think so". De Menezes wasn't murdered, he was manslaughtered (to abuse the English language momentarily), and unless you can argue that he got shot because he'd overcharged on a recent fitting I don't see how you can possibly call it murder.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't throw the book, and quite possibly disciplinary action, at the police officers who killed him.

By: john b

john b — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:55:00 +0000

Brown? Hardly…

By: a.c.

a.c. — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:24:00 +0000

The police officers who murdered de Menezes, if they are found guilty, will be taking the fall for what I argue is not an accident, but a symptom of the systemic racism of Anglo-American society. De Menezes was murdered because he was a racialized minority, and alongside the so-called "war on terror" the Bush-Blair-Martin regime is engaging in a war of terror – against refugees, immigrants, non-status residents and minoritized and racialized people. The international left should be demanding more than holding the individuals responsible for de Menezes’ murder; we should be agitating for the regularization of all non-status people, fighting racist foreign and domestic policy, decolonizing the Americas, and supporting anti-imperialist resistance in the global south and in our communities. It’s all part of the same pile of shit, that lead to the obscene murder of a brown electrician running to catch the train.

By: max

max — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 09:26:00 +0000

In the ‘drink your own poison’ sense.

By: johng

johng — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:17:00 +0000

In what sense is Livingstone a ‘war criminal’? Do I detect atrocious moral equivilance here?

By: max

max — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 07:37:00 +0000

… speaking of which, shouldn’t you be calling for the war-criminal Livingstone to face justice? International-law style and all…

By: hellblazer

hellblazer — Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:45:00 +0000

I’m probably being naive, but why is the sourcing of all these corrections unattributed? There are some quotes from an eyewitness, but the Times article doesn’t seem to indicate where the corrected info about de Menezes’ clothing and behaviour has come from. Staff? CCTV?

By: Chris Lightfoot

Chris Lightfoot — Sun, 31 Jul 2005 06:42:00 +0000

… speaking of which, is anyone raising money for the de Menezes family? It was reported that Jean Charles was sending money home for his father’s cancer treatment; if true they’re presumably a bit fucked now that the police have shot him.