I agree with S2 that there is a correlation between me and people who are wrong. And furthermore I’m a twat. And a communist. And a Jew-hater.

Surely that’s nailed it now!

I agree with S2 that there is a correlation between me and people who are wrong. And furthermore I’m a twat. And a communist.

Anything else?

You forgot to add "… and I am wrong."

I agree with Matt that there is a correlation between racists and people who are in favour of hang-them-and-flog-them law and order policies.

> I agree with Matt and S2 that there is a correlation between racists and people who are in favour of draconian law and order policies.

I think maybe you missed the point of what I actually wrote. There is a correlation between everyone and people who are in favour of draconian law and order policies, because everyone is in favour of draconian law and order policies. Therefore, any attempt to infer meaning from the correlation with any one particular point of view, whether it be racism or anything else, is meaningless.

So, for "agree with" read "take the opposite view to".

In my defence however, I didn’t invent the terminology: describing eg the BNP as "far right" is absolutely standard. However much you might object to it, you should at least be used to it by now. Also I did repeatedly say things like I don’t believe that tories are all racist: seriouly meant disclaimers which you chose not to take seriously. At no stage did I use "right" synonymously with "racist". The closest I came was when I said that I have got something against very right-wing people…many of them are bigots of one sort or another, including more than a few racists. Replacing "right-wing" with "socially illiberal" (which is what I meant, honestly!) I completely stand by that, and I was pretty astounded by your reaction.

I’ll strike a deal with you: in future I’ll take care to say "socially illiberal" rather than "right-wing" when that’s what I mean.

In return, next time you hear a lefty using the terms "right-wing" and "racist" in closer proximity than you’re comfortable with, instead of haranguing them about "irrational prejudice" and "phantom thought-crimes", just explain why such sloppy language is "irritating for those of us on the right with sensible views". They’ll probably sympathise – after all there are plenty of people who enjoy describing eg The Guardian as "communist" just to annoy. But if not, then feel free to throw the kitchen sink at them.

Larry: I guess it’s a matter of terminology. The ‘right’ is a broad church. Most of the people I know on the right are young and very socially liberal. Racism just doesn’t appear in our world. But if you include everyone on the right, I guess it happens. My problem is with you saying it’s more of a problem on the ‘right’. I think it’s equally a problem on the left. Would you call those retired trade-unionists in the working men’s clubs up north right-wing? Socially, they are in some sense. Economically, certainly not. I think language is important, and my experience of the right is, as I say, not that it is a hotbed of racism. This is why I dislike the synonymous use of ‘right’ with ‘racist’. It’s irritating for those of us on the right with sensible views.

more racists will go for parties who are tough on immigration

Let’s be realistic here. All three main parties are tough on immigration. Their policies at the election were extremely similar. None of them could be said to be liberal on the issue. Overt racists voted BNP, anyway.

Take a look at the BNP’s economic policies (don’t laugh).

Sorry I just can’t help myself. Who gives a fuck about their economic policies? Certainly not anyone who votes for them, and not me either. In my book the BNP is a (socially) "far-right" party, and this seems to be widely used terminology. I’m sorry if you don’t like that.

Having said this, it is not true that I believe that all racists are (socially) right-wing. S2 points out that some vaguely mainstream lefties are anti-semitic, and I agree (although I do think he exaggerates the extent). Beyond that, I’m sure that there are loonies who call themselves "communists", "anti-globalisationsts", or whatever who’ll combine extreme left-wing views with racist ones. I tend not to hang about with such people so I can’t really say.

You have no evidence, just irrational prejudice.

Repeating it will make it become true. Repeating it will make it become true. Repeating it will make it become true.

I’ve offered an argument (I think a plausible one) that more racists will go for parties who are tough on immigration (eg the tories) than others. I agree with Matt and S2 that there is a correlation between racists and people who are in favour of draconian law and order policies. I pointed out a thousand posts above that a few right-wing there’ve been one or two tory MPs in recent years who were out and out racists.

I’m amazed that you find most of this even mildly controversial.

As for "I have got something against very right-wing people…many of them are bigots of one sort or another, including more than a few racists" being very similar in nature to religious fundamentalism. Again I should clarify: for "right-wing" read "socially right-wing", apologies for any confusion. But still.

I’ve been to a lot of dinner-parties with (socially) right-wing people in my life. I’ve read the Daily Mail more often than I’d like, and I know that the views expressed in it pale in comparison to those of a proportion of its readers. Ditto for Richard Littlejohn’s column in The Sun, and Jeremy Clarkson’s, and Gary Bushell’s. I’ve heard right-wing MPs stick their foot in their mouths. I’ve heard right-wing tories/UKIP passing off xenophobic bile as anti-EU argument. I’ve had pretty good exposure to the "string ’em up" brigade, and I think I’ve got a fair picture of them. If you include "homophobia" as "bigotry" (and I do), then my accusation couldn’t be further away from a "faith-based" argument. It’s just non-negotiable, obvious fact. And yes there are fair few racists too: the "send ’em back" brigade, for whom immigration is a problem for no other reason than the colour of the skin of the immigrants.