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Comments on: Cigarettes and alcohol http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/ As fair-minded and non-partisan as Torquemada. Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4791 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:26:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4791 Andrew,

There’s going to be a ban of some sort, due to public pressure. The question isn’t whether we’re going to have a ban; it’s what type of ban it will be. My suggestion is intended to satisfy public demand for a ban while also pleasing the ban’s opponents. It’s not ideal, but it leaves a lot more freedom in place than an outright ban. Of course, if I were King, I’d just have all smokers’ lips amputated, which would be simpler and more fun and, as long as I didn’t bother with anaesthetic or professional surgeons, cheaper.

> you need an army of people to monitor them

We already have an army of people to monitor whether licensed premises are fulfilling the terms of their license. I see no reason to make that army any bigger just because of yet another licensing regulation.

> the tax break would effectively force breweries to make all pubs non-smoking

Er, no, because, if there were fewer than 30% smoking pubs, the tax breaks would work in the other direction. The most sensible option for any brewery would therefore be to make between 30% and 50% of their pubs non-smoking. Which would be great. (I mentioned tax breaks, but there are probably other incentives that work better.)

> State mandated exercise, all in the name of saving the NHS a few quid.

Yeah, that’s posible. Trouble is, as long as you have an NHS, the arguments for the government to improve public health are sound and reasonable. If you paid for your own health, you might well choose to reduce your costs by living healthily; it should hardly be a surprise that the government uses the same reasoning. Which is yet another reason to scrap the NHS.

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By: Andrew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4773 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:03:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4773 Targets are a stupid idea, especially if backed up with tax incentives. Firstly, you need an army of people to monitor them, and secondly, the tax break would effectively force breweries to make all pubs non-smoking. It’s a ban by the back door. I’m with John B on this – it’s another authoritarian law attempting to mould us all into perfect people. What next? Taxes on food. Bans on alcohol. State mandated exercise, all in the name of saving the NHS a few quid. And just to get through the SBBS suitable comment filter: All so a few totalitarian fucknut cunting wankbastards can get off creating the perfect society.

But here’s the killer argument: All of Dublin’s pubs now smell of BO, stale beer and sweat, instead of smoke. Not so great an improvement, really. It might not kill you, but it’s fucking unpleasant.

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By: Matthew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4769 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:23:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4769 Yes I agree it’s unusual, though I suppose drinking is banned in pubs for 13 hours a day,pubs aren’t being singled out in the legislation (actually they are somewhat in that ones that don’t sell food can allow smoking), and there are some other examples..drinking alcohol is against the law on football terraces for example, despite being privately owned.

I quite like your idea about setting targets, but what would happen if no-one wanted to allow smoking?

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By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4768 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:47:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4768 Yup, me too. From my personal point of view, this ban is brilliant, since stale cigarette smoke is a migraine trigger for me. Once it’s in place, I’m going to be more likely to go to pubs and I’m going to enjoy it more once I’m there. That’s hardly the point. The purpose of legislation is not pleasantness. There’s more to being a criminal than pissing me off.

Matthew,

You may be right. I haven’t read the act, but I had concluded from all the constant harping from its advocates about "public places" that the bill mentioned public places. Come to think of it, that was a silly and naive conclusion.

I still think this goes a significant step further than previous legislation in undermining private property rights, though. Existing laws have regulated and controlled what may be done in licensed premises, but haven’t drawn a strict line between behaviour that is banned in pubs but legal elsewhere. Slippery-slope arguments are often bollocks, admittedly, but this does look very much like the thin end of a wedge to me.

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4767 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:50:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4767 I’m sort-of in agreement with 3A here: when I’m not drunk, the concept of being in a smoky room is minging and rancid (once drunk, the smoking demon is unleashed and I move from zero-a-day to 40-a-day). From a selfish PoV, I’d welcome smoking bans everywhere indoors except seedy dives.

However, I’m not happy with this on principle: I don’t want to live in an authoritarian loonatorium like Singapore, even if it is an authoritarian loonatorium with cleaner streets, fewer drunken punch-ups and lower cleaning bills.

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By: Third Avenue http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4766 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:43:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4766 I’m really torn on this issue. My instinct is to agree with John B on principle, but, on a more selfish level, going out here in New York is so massively more pleasant (and lighter on a laundry bills) now that smoking is banned. Walking into a London pub on a visit recently almost made me heave..

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By: Matthew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4765 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:58:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4765 "reckon the most seditious part of this legislation is the definition of pubs as public places. Any MP who supported the ban still should have opposed that wording"

Does it explicitly? I didn’t see that, all i read seemed to mean public as in ‘the public are admitted’. And on that the government already regulates loads of things in pubs, from the size of the drinks to the hours they can open, to the no.of fire exits. You may think that’s wrong, but it’s not a dramatic development surely?

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By: Chris b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4764 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:48:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4764 It should be realised that smoking is anti-social in public and like kiddie fiddling should only occur behind closed doors…..

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By: Chris b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4763 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:46:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4763 Definetly pubs/bars/anywhere outside of owner occupied rsidential property should be non-smoking. The concession is some designated glass walled smoking boxes with industrial extractor fans and carbon filters installed.
Then again I am a bit of a cunt….

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By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/cigarettes-and-alcohol/#comment-4761 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:25:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1167#comment-4761 > babies have more than cigarettes

Pros, that is.

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