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Comments on: Name that religious text http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/ As fair-minded and non-partisan as Torquemada. Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Old Peculier http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7155 Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:13:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7155 Correction, Andrew. Most Muslims don’t stone people to death. NO Jews do. Big, big difference.

‘Stupid, ahistorical hate’- what an absurd expression. If Islam and the evil that attends it were safely in a historical context, like the nastiness in Judaism, ie not practised for around 2,000 years, then my attitude to Islam would be pretty neutral. Problem is, sharia is alive and well, and wanted, by some Muslims in Britain. I’d dearly love Islam to be irrelevant.

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By: Andrew Bartlett http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7127 Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:57:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7127 "Once more, from the left, a ludicrous attempt at moral equivalence, which fails abysmally."

No, once more, an attempt by me to demonstrate the unreason that lies at the centre of your argument.

As we see here:

"However, I will eat my words, the next time I see some Jews in Golders Green stoning someone to death or putting a leper out of the camp!"

Your argument that ‘Muslims are bad’ should not rest on the basis of some shoddy essentialist description of Islam and its practice. Rather, it should be a historically located argument that does not say that Islam is itself bad, as this argument is undermined by both the fact that other religions have similarly brutal, but unpracticed, edicts in their holy books, and the fact that many Muslims are able to live without enacting these edicts, just as most Christians and Jews are able to do. Some Muslim societies do enact these edicts at this point in history. You ought to argue that the enaction of these edicts is to be opposed by people who hold our moral and ethical commitments – which themselves are the products of our own historical situation.

But what you DO argue is simple, stupid, ahistorical hate.

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7103 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:03:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7103 Ah, but as Old Peculier would be happy to point out, he’s only pretending – he’ll revert to his Proper Muslim ways and slit your throat in the blinking of an eye…

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By: Lorna http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7102 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:22:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7102 Oh, God, now you come to mention it, there’s one crashed out in the living room drinking beer, eating pizza and watching Scarface at the moment. OMFG WHAT IF HE’S A SUICIDE BOMBER?!?!?!?!?1111111

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By: Lorna http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7101 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:51:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7101 You know, it’s funny, but I’ve lived in a majority-Muslim area all my life, and I’m still more scared of people stirring hate than I am of Muslims. I’m probably just another blinkered self-hating liberal, or something. Alternatively, maybe I’ve just actually met any Muslims in my entire life.

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By: Old Peculier http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7095 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:31:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7095 Thirty years ago Muslims living in Britain were a different breed. Having escaped their Muslim hell holes they were grateful for what Britain have to offer.

Second, third generation British Muslims take this country for granted. They don’t realise that it is because it isn’t governed by Islam or some equally oppressive totalitarian system that it is relatively free and prosperous.

So what do they want to do? Well 60% of them want sharia in the UK.

Morons.

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By: N.I.B. http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7093 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:10:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7093 I wish we’d known all this thirty years ago – it’s clear the real threat was Islam all along, not the Soviets…

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By: Old Peculier http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7092 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:52:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7092 Andrew, thank you for your reasoned argument.

Judaism has reformed and adapted to the present day. Islam has had no reformation at all. So the rules in the Koran and Hadith have never officially been repudiated and always, where Muslims gain power, have the potential to be implemented.

Western (Christian/Secular) countries have generally become more liberal as time has gone on. But with Islamic countries the opposite is true. Even Muslims living in Britain, with all the advantages that this tolerant, wealthy democracy confers, are often more reactionary than their parents/grandparents, who were at least grateful to be here.

It does indeed matter what Muslims believe and what Sharia law says, because, unless forcibly constrained, Muslims tend to put Sharia into practice, as they have been instructed. This is why secularism and democracy in Turkey, the only halfway tolerably Muslim country, has had to be enforced top down. This is why, with the secular dictator gone, sharia is once more breaking out in Iraq.

What the ancient Jewish laws said is quite literally irrelevant for the present day. What sharia says is all too relevant.

Once more, from the left, a ludicrous attempt at moral equivalence, which fails abysmally. However, I will eat my words, the next time I see some Jews in Golders Green stoning someone to death or putting a leper out of the camp!

Fools!

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7087 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:07:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7087 Or, indeed, what Andrew said.

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/07/name-that-religious-text/#comment-7085 Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:05:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1304#comment-7085 OP: literally, Judea. However, I think you’re using ‘put’ in the present tense, in which case they don’t anymore. Even though their holy book suggests that they ought to. And even though there’s no suggestion that the relevant text has been superseded by new bits of holy book.

This would seem to cast doubt on your perspective that all true Muslims need to believe in and obey the barbaric bits of the Koran (unless you believe there are no true Jews left).

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