Comments on: A statement from the Metropolitan Police

By: Starman

Starman — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:20:00 +0000

From the Guardian Wed. 17 Aug:

"New claims emerge over Menezes death

· Brazilian was held before being shot
· Police failed to identify him
· He made no attempt to run away

Rosie Cowan, Duncan Campbell and Vikram Dodd
Wednesday August 17, 2005
The Guardian

The young Brazilian shot dead by police on a London tube train in mistake for a suicide bomber had already been overpowered by a surveillance officer before he was killed, according to secret documents revealed last night.

It also emerged in the leaked documents that early allegations that he was running away from police at the time of the shooting were untrue and that he appeared unaware that he was being followed.

Relatives and the dead man's legal team expressed shock and outrage at the revelations. Scotland Yard has continued to justify a shoot-to-kill policy.

Jean Charles de Menezes died after being shot on a tube train at Stockwell station in south London on July 22, the morning after the failed bomb attacks in London.

But the evidence given to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) by police officers and eyewitnesses and leaked to ITV News shows that far from leaping a ticket barrier and fleeing from police, as was initially reported, he was filmed on CCTV calmly entering the station and picking up a free newspaper before boarding the train.

It has now emerged that Mr de Menezes:

· was never properly identified because a police officer was relieving himself at the very moment he was leaving his home;

· was unaware he was being followed;

· was not wearing a heavy padded jacket or belt as reports at the time suggested;

· never ran from the police;

· and did not jump the ticket barrier.

But the revelation that will prove most uncomfortable for Scotland Yard was that the 27-year-old electrician had already been restrained by a surveillance officer before being shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder."

By: shredder

shredder — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:17:00 +0000

If the coppers thought he was a suicide bomber, why did they allow him on a bus, then follow him into the tube?
This poor bastard probably thought he was being chased by 2 or 3 wound up glue sniffing football hooligans.

They should have taken him in at the bus stop. Then at least if they had to cap him it would have been in the open and not on a crowded subway car...

By: Chris B

Chris B — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:37:00 +0000

"a) it’s not clear that the police did the former here; b) what about if they’re robbers who want to (get your PIN/tell them where your valuables are/etc) -then- kill you?"

a) Don’t know. But if I wasn’t dealng smack and someone pointed a gun at me rather than just shooting me I’d be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and think they just might be police…
b) If you run you will probably get shot, best to cooperate but stall for time for as long as possible until a sensible opportunity to escape safely…

By: john b

john b — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:53:00 +0000

Yup, it’s the first link in the original post above…

By: hellblazer

hellblazer — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:44:00 +0000

Think about it.... the guy was obviously guilty of something (not that justifies shooting him) and hence ran or he was a twat and ran for no good reason, either way his actions were stupid and he got killed, duh!

I wasn't aware that we were implementing ``survival of the fittest" in London...

BTW, anyone got links to the ``table-leg" case that resurfaced in the news recently? Just because this shooting was a mistake rather than a deliberate killing, I don't see why we should feel guilty about calling it a serious error.

(That said, I can't agree with John B's glib assumption that you only join the police to throw your weight around...)

By: Matthew

Matthew — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:37:00 +0000

"Apparently it’s not at all uncommon for Brazilian police to gun down people in the street – to the tune of a three-figure number per year"

That does somewhat make the Brazilian Ambassador’s shock seem unreal.

By: Chris B

Chris B — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:00 +0000

And more to the point, why would the mafia be after you if you’re an electrician?!?!?!? Think about it…. the guy was obviously guilty of something (not that justifies shooting him) and hence ran or he was a twat and ran for no good reason, either way his actions were stupid and he got killed, duh!

By: john b

john b — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:19:00 +0000

"Anyone who points a gun at you and yells "stop police! get down!" obviously doesn't want to shoot you or he would have done so already"

a) it's not clear that the police did the former here; b) what about if they're robbers who want to (get your PIN/tell them where your valuables are/etc) -then- kill you?

By: Chris B

Chris B — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:17:00 +0000

He's not in Brazil.
The only times you'll see guns being pointed at you in the UK is if you're involved with drug dealing or the police want you for something.
Anyone who points a gun at you and yells "stop police! get down!" obviously doesn't want to shoot you or he would have done so already, running away is simply self selctionist darwinism.....
The whole episode should be put down as a tragic accident and a campaign should be run to point out to the public (as if they should need telling) that not cooperating with armed officers will get you shot.

By: Michael

Michael — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:23:00 +0000

Apparently it’s not at all uncommon for Brazilian police to gun down people in the street – to the tune of a three-figure number per year (four in the early 1990s). (Source: one of today’s papers, but I can’t be arsed to check which one)

So even if de Menezes realised they were police, that might not have changed his overall view of his likely chances if he’d stayed put.