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Comments on: Theocratic insanity http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/ As fair-minded and non-partisan as Torquemada. Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4454 Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:13:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4454 > What’s that got to do with anything?

It was a comparison between the greatest generation of feminists, who changed the world for the better, and the self-absorbed narrow-minded pish that passes for modern feminism, which is proud of destroying life.

> What else could possibly be reasonable?

In cases in which the father is offering to take sole custody of the child and raise it and pay for it while the mother is insisting on abortion because she doesn’t want to raise a child, you honestly think that there is only one conceivable reasonable course of action. Jesus wept.

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By: Lorna http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4437 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:16:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4437 Say a woman is pregnant with my baby, and wants to abort. You say I’m not allowed to stop that happening. In what way is that different from telling me that I may have no say in whether I become a father?

Because the focus is on the person whose body all this is happening to. I did say others might find it purely semantic. As I said, it’s not that I have a particular interest in denying a bloke the right to decide whether to become a father or not. It’s just that I think the person who is most affected by it should have the final choice.

You know, there was a time when feminists were proud of their role in creating the next generation. How the suffragettes must be spinning in their graves.

That’s nice. I’m sure Emmeline and Christabel would object to my non-nationalistic pacifism, too. (Actually, I’m sure they wouldn’t give a shit, given my total non-importance.) What’s that got to do with anything?

"We must have the absolute right to abortion because childbirth can be painful." Life’s painful. Get over it

Not discussing the right to abortion. The person going through the pain is the person who gets the final choice whether to go through with it or not, yes. What else could possibly be reasonable?

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By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4434 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:22:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4434 Abortion isn’t legal because childbirth is painful and potentially dangerous — especially since abortion is painful and potentially dangerous. Abortion is legal because some people don’t want to bring up children.

> To me, the two are slightly different.

Say a woman is pregnant with my baby, and wants to abort. You say I’m not allowed to stop that happening. In what way is that different from telling me that I may have no say in whether I become a father? If you insist that no man may ever stop any woman having an abortion, how does any man ever have a say in whether to become a father?

You know, there was a time when feminists were proud of their role in creating the next generation. How the suffragettes must be spinning in their graves. "We must have the absolute right to abortion because childbirth can be painful." Life’s painful. Get over it.

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By: Lorna http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4432 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:29:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4432 I don’t tell you how to live, but you have no qualms whatsoever about telling me that I should not be allowed to have a say in whether I become a father.

Oh, that’s what you’re on about. Right, okay. In that case, I’d say I don’t tell you whether you can become a father – I’d say I tell you whether you can, morally speaking, dictate to a woman whether she has an abortion or not. To me, the two are slightly different. To others, this may well come across as purely semantics.

And either way, I’d say – and you may well take offence at this – that between the right to decide to become a father or not, and the right to decide whether a painful and potentially dangerous thing happens to one’s own body, if the two are in conflict, the latter is vastly more important. Sorry, but I don’t see them as anywhere near equal.

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By: Andrew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4411 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:53:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4411 John: Sure, but my point was all about taking a cheap shot. Your site brings out the worst in me. Besides which, if someone can’t calculate the number of standard deviations away from the mean they’d have to be to get pregnant using a particular combination of birth controls, all whilst trying to get the bloody things out of the wrapper, well they shouldn’t be breeding in the first place…

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By: Squander Two http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4409 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:29:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4409 Dsquared is right. And so is Andrew. Come to think of it, so am I.

> pills, condoms, diaphragms and IUDs can fail

And they all say as much on the packaging. It’s basic risk assessment, isn’t it? If you’re not willing to accept, say, a 0.5% risk of pregnancy, don’t have sex. Or at least, don’t have sex 200 times.

I’m not convinced, though, that abortion has been criminalised in Texas. As far as I can see, the idea of having to go [gasp!] to a hospital was so traumatic for these eejits that they opted for the jumping-on-the-womb option instead.

Is there some reason I can’t think of why this girl wasn’t allowed to cross state lines, by the way? Abortion’s illegal in Northern Ireland, but that doesn’t stop Northern Irish girls having abortions: they just have them in Liverpool.

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By: dsquared http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4406 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:06:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4406 I simply do not believe that there are material numbers of American teenagers who do not know that sex leads to pregnancy. Even the fucking Welsh have worked that one out.

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4404 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:13:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4404 The problem being that even when used properly, pills, condoms, diaphragms and IUDs can fail.

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By: Andrew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4401 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:54:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4401 Jean: Wow. And I thought I was patronising and condescending. Well done you. Now, go read what I wrote and note that at no point did I suggest that women should abstain from sex. Sex education is sufficiently well established in my country to have given me a grounding in all kinds of ways to do the dirty with the opposite sex and not be left with a lingering problem. I suggest you google the terms ‘contraceptive pill’, ‘condom’, ‘diaphragm’, ‘IUD’.

Otherwise, are you seriously trying to suggest that teenagers don’t know how to make babies, but do know how to bring on a miscarriage? That would require some pretty weird gaps in the education process, wouldn’t it? ‘What does that do, Mrs. Smith?’ ‘Erm… Nothing, but if you look at the big round thing above that, that’s where you need to kick a pregnant woman to kill her foetus. Okay, kids, there’s the bell. Enjoy your recess.’

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By: Andrew Bartlett http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/06/theocratic-insanity/#comment-4396 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:41:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=1137#comment-4396 One ‘can’ find out information from other sources. But that does not mean that education plays no role in shaping the views of people who recieve it. To argue otherwise is downright stupid. Jean described a situation in America where the education system encourages a belief in untruths. Does this make people more likely to believe untruths. Yes, plainly it does. This does not mean that all who are exposed to these untruths will believe them, simply that more will believe these untruths than they would if education had concentrated on an informed discussion of contraception.

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