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Comments on: What politicians *should* be saying http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/ As fair-minded and non-partisan as Torquemada. Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Larry http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3349 Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:01:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3349 If you’re worried about drugs fucking people up, then don’t send drug-users to prison. It’ll just fuck most of them up more.

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By: Michael http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3334 Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:06:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3334 this...]]> Incidentally, John, when doing a bit of digging on the former Lord Chief Justice, who was recently awarded the Order of the Garter alongside John Major, I found this

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By: Michael http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3333 Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:48:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3333 "I just wish you never suffer from them but they exist."

Multiple sclerosis and other illnesses whose symptoms are chronic muscle spasms also exist, and I hope in turn that you never suffer from them.

And I mean this most sincerely, as I know a great many people who do suffer from them, and have seen first-hand how these people’s symptoms are ONLY relieved by cannabis (beta-interferon not being widely available on the NHS and far too expensive – five figures a year – for people who are generally subsisting on disability benefits). As a result, I tend to be highly suspicious of people whose only concern is to stress the drawbacks without acknowledging that a significant minority of people derive very real benefit from it. And this isn’t remotely a "trendy line".

"I don’t suppose y’all have kids?"

I have two, as it happens, and I’m going to bring them up exactly the same way my parents brought me up when it comes to drugs (and sex) – make sure they have access to balanced and authoritative information that highlights the drawbacks without resorting to finger-wagging moralism. If they’re anything like me (or their mother), the latter approach is almost certainly going to be completely counterproductive anyway.

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3332 Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:43:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3332 No, a *small minority* of cannabis users suffer from paranoia and psychotic crises. A *large majority* do not.

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By: Mat http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3331 Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:42:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3331 Cannabis does have effects on the mental health which you are apparently not aware of… more than just laziness! Paranoia, psychotic crises, etc. I just wish you never suffer from them but they exist. It’s not a "danger" but an inherent side-effect of a mind-bending drug.
You all keep repeating the trendy line on cannabis, with a libertarian point of view, but from the point of view of society there is a case for drug restrictions
I don’t suppose y’all have kids?

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By: Michael http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3328 Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:31:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3328 acknowledged that there were clear medicinal benefits</a>, the police and the courts tended to turn a blind eye to situations with obvious mitigating circumstances. And quite rightly.]]> I don’t think my ex-girlfriend, who smokes cannabis regularly to relieve her MS symptoms, is the slightest bit concerned about whether it reduces her capacity for free will – all that matters to her is that it’s the one remedy she’s tried that demonstrably works.

The irony is that she doesn’t even like it that much – but what’s the alternative, given that there are no legal or affordable drugs that are anything like as effective? (Believe me, she’s done plenty of practical research).

Fortunately, though what she’s doing is technically illegal, the chances of her getting nicked for it are practically zero: ever since the BMA acknowledged that there were clear medicinal benefits, the police and the courts tended to turn a blind eye to situations with obvious mitigating circumstances. And quite rightly.

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By: Andrew Bartlett http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3316 Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:14:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3316 What do you mean, ‘free will’? This isn’t some abstract question, as, given it is the centre of your argument, Paul, you need to have a working definition an theory of the term.

Living in a material universe governed by cause and effect (else all our reason crumbles), there is little room (no room) for uncaused ‘free will’. We are free to will what we will, but the causes of what we will are the historical, social, economic, biological antecedents of that will.

By the logic that a person who smokes cannabis reduces their capacity for free will, then so does any action that affects the existence of another person, as it irrevocably changes the antecendents to their future will.

I think you meant ‘remove a part of a person’s capacity for reasoned thought’. In which case, fair enough. But the biggest and most widespread causea of this are ignorance, lies, secrects and mistruths.

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By: Andrew http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3315 Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:10:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3315 It’s certainly hard to argue that cannabis should be illegal, or otherwise supply-restricted in some way, when alcohol is not.

Some people overdo it, but most are sensible. The problem with current thinking in government is that we have to protect the idiots who don’t know when to stop, by restricting those who do.

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By: dave heasman http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3313 Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:23:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3313 "Why do those who claim to be truly supportive of civil liberties advocate legalising substances that remove a part of a person’s free will."

Wha? I’m not allowed to exercise my free will in consuming something that you think will reduce my free will?

i.e. You’re allowed to reduce my free will, but I’m not.

I suppose lots of people vote for this sort of thing, but its continuing attraction does depend on somewhat specific values of "you" and "me".

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2005/04/what-politicians-should-be-saying/#comment-3312 Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:13:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=994#comment-3312 Most people can consume cannabis and opium recreationally indefinitely without harm; others enjoy the drugs so much and have sufficiently little willpower that they overconsume and become addicts. Most people can consume ice cream recreationally without harm; others enjoy the food so much and have sufficiently little willpower that they overconsume and become addicts.

The fact that ‘a small dose’ of ice cream is hard to quantify doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist, or that there’s no difference between eating a Cornetto and eating a gallon of Haagen Dazs.

And criminalising drugs does little to end addiction, but does much to ensure that addicts are unable to live normal lives – whereas you could barely throw a stick in a room of middle-aged middle class professionals without hitting a functional alcoholic.

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