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Comments on: Boo, and indeed, yey http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/ As fair-minded and non-partisan as Torquemada. Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Name http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-634 Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:39:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-634 Uh, geez, you guys. If you think something other than Word could have produced these documents, then let’s see it. Let’s see a document that matches up as well as the little green footballs examples when overlayed.

It has not been done!

The issue is not so much the superscripts specifically, or even the actual font typeface, but the perfect match (accounting for multiple copying and other degrading) with the Microsoft word. Even the last letters on each line and the last letters on the document are still in alignment.

If something else could have produced these documents with such as good match, then why is there not one single example of this anywhere?

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By: simon jester http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-610 Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:58:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-610 Customised superscript "th", "st" and "nd" characters wouldn’t be on my list at all; it would be a lot quicker for them to type (eg) "st" than to fiddle about finding the special key for it. Also a lot cheaper.

The Juliusblog image is a blown up view of the online image. The differences could be caused by different typefaces, or by "noise" creeping in through multiple copying. Viewing the originals (or 1st generation copies) should be enough to settle the argument, one way or another.

The Kos story didn’t look directly at font samples, but linked to another site which did – and drew exactly opposite conclusions!

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By: john b http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-609 Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:00:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-609 looks directly at font samples</a>.]]> Definitively proven was a bit strong.

Still, if I were ordering typewriters for the US armed forces, customised superscript "th", "st" and "nd" characters would certainly have been on my customisation list, for relatively obvious reasons.

If you look at the Juliusblog GIF above, it’s clear that LGF is using a different *typeface* variant from the letter – not only the spacing, but actual characters, are different.

Finally, here’s a third Kos story, which looks directly at font samples.

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By: simon jester http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-608 Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:33:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-608 John,

You really should have looked at LGF’s subsequent articles.

The Kos article mentions that a font consists of more than just the typeface; it also includes rules about spacing, etc.

Unfortunately for Kos, these rules vary in their implementation – not just between modern day word processors and 1970’s typewriters, but also between the same font on the same word processor, printed on different printers (trust me, this has on occasion been the bane of my life!)

Presumably, LGF and the unknown forger use a similar type of printer.

Many of his other points (eg. apparent differences in font, letters appearing to be out of alignment) are artifacts of multi-generational copying (I’ve seen worse).

The point about superscripting – a fair number of typewriters would have allowed sub/superscripting, but it would have been at normal typesize, not a reduced typesize. It could have been achieved by a special character (as he suggests), but would they really have gone to all the trouble of specially ordering a customised <sup>th</sup> character? Even more improbable, what are the chances of it exactly matching the same effect in MSWord’s default settings?

In summary, Kos’s criticisms definitively prove nothing.

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By: Chris Lightfoot http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-605 Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:51:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-605 This whole thing is idiotic. About the only thing we’ve learned is that many web loggers aren’t very good at using Microsoft Word. Good for them, but they oughtn’t to think that they’re making a serious forensic point.

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By: Name http://sbbs.johnband.org/2004/09/boo-and-indeed-yey/#comment-604 Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:52:00 +0000 http://sbbs.johnband.org/?p=425#comment-604 Uh, there is a another website (lgf links to it) where the documents are not shrunk really small, but on the contrary, enlarged, and they match very well.

Also, why has not someone been able to demonstrate such a close matching for the Killian memos and a document produced on the kind of typewriter people suggest produced these documents? I have not seen that anywhere. There is something special about the Microsoft Word match-up that has not been duplicated.

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